Wednesday, March 25, 2015

Father Engelhardt Loses Appeal

By Ralph Cipriano
for Bigtrial.net

A day after they ruled against an appeal from Bernard Shero, a panel of three state Superior Court judges came to the same conclusion regarding the appeal of Shero's co-defendant, the late Father Charles Engelhardt.

In a 25-page decision issued today, the Superior Court judges ruled that seven appeal issues raised by Engelhardt are "either waived or devoid of merit." The judges then affirmed Engelhardt's sentence of 6 to 12 years in jail after being convicted of endangering the welfare of a child, corruption of a minor and indecent assault.

The 67-year-old priest died last November in jail after serving nearly two years of his sentence. In their opinion, the judges note "that appellant has passed away during the pendency of this appeal. However, consistent with our cases, we decline to dismiss this appeal as moot in its entirety."

This was before the judges went through the appeal issues and dismissed them as "either waived or devoid of merit."

In Engelhardt's appeal, the defense had faulted Judge Ceisler for allowing Dr. Gerald Margiotti, a pediatrician, to testify as an expert witness to the jury.

Dr. Margiotti testified about the victim in the case, Billy Doe, saying that Billy's boyhood complaint of testicular pain was consistent with sexual abuse suffered after the alleged attack by Engelhardt.

The defense countered that the pediatrician had never examined Billy Doe and was not qualified as an expert. After Dr. Magiotti testified, the prosecutor, Assistant District Attorney Mark Cipolletti, told the jury that the doctor's testimony amounted to "scientific medical corroboration" of Billy Doe's accusation of sex abuse. The pain was also a "silent witness" that the former altar boy was telling the truth, the prosecutor said.

In their decision, the Superior Court judges ruled that although Dr. Margiotti had never examined the alleged victim, "We find this distinction to be immaterial for the purposes of the Rule 702 issue," regarding expert witness testimony. In their decision, the judges do not state a reason but the 702 rule does allow an expert to express an opinion based on "sufficient facts or data."

The Superior Court judges mentioned in a footnote that the defense lawyers in the case did not seek to toss Dr. Margiotti's testimony under the hearsay rule. Perhaps they should have.

In oral arguments last October, Michael J. McGovern, on behalf of Father Engelhardt, accused Cipolletti of prosecutorial misconduct for something he said in his closing argument. Cipollettti stated that although there was no other alleged victim of Engelhardt out there except for Billy Doe, more victims might be coming forward.

"What he [McGovern] didn't tell you was no child, no student has come forward" -- dramatic pause -- "yet," Cipolletti told the jury.

But the Superior Court judges wrote that "a prosecutor has considerable latitude during closing arguments."

The Superior Court judges also noted that in his closing argument, McGovern told the jury that since the arrest of his client, the priest's "name and picture was spread all over the region, nationally, the internet, TV, radio, newspapers, national magazines, saying this is a child molester."

McGovern told the jury that a public announcement was made from every pulpit in the Archdiocese of Philadelphia that if there were any other victims of Father Engelhardt out there, they could come forward and contact the archdiocese or the district attorney.

"Ladies and gentlemen, there has not been one child or one student from any of the institutions that [Father Engelhardt] was associated with his entire life that came forward" to make a claim of abuse, McGovern told the jury, despite saturation media coverage.

"The trial court concluded that [Cipolletti's] remark was a fair response to" the closing argument by McGovern, the Superior Court judges wrote. As far as the Superior Court judges were concerned, "the trial court did not abuse its discretion when it denied appellant's request for a mistrial."

In the Engelhardt appeal, the last issue raised concerned the defense's subpoena of Billy Doe's older brother to testify at the 2013 trial of Engelhardt and his co-defendant, former Catholic school teacher Shero. McGovern had contended that Judge Ellen Ceisler erred when she denied McGovern's request for a bench warrant to subpoena Billy Doe's older brother. McGovern also faulted Judge Ceisler for her response when the jury asked in a question during deliberations why the older brother didn't testify.

During the trial, the prosecutor argued that the older brother had not been properly subpoenaed. When McGovern tried to argue, the judge cut him off, saying, "You sent it first class, you don't know if he got it."

The judge then announced that she would write a note back to the jury, saying, "There's no evidence that he received a subpoena."

The defense wanted to call Billy Doe's older brother because of a signed statement he gave a detective on Jan. 9, 2012. Like Billy Doe, Billy's older brother had served as an altar boy at St. Jerome's, where the alleged rapes occurred. Billy's older brother had also served as a sexton.

The statement showed that the older brother, then a 26-year-old lawyer, contradicted Billy on several key elements of his story, such as who took care of the sacramental wine after Mass, whether priests were ever alone with altar boys, and whether the doors to the church sacristy at  St. Jerome's were  kept locked.

But before the Superior Court would consider that issue, the judges faulted defense lawyers for making an argument "devoid of any discussion of our cases, standards, or any other legal authority on the subject of bench warrants, continuances, or jury questions."

So the Superior Court judges ruled that the issue of whatever happened to Billy Doe's older brother was "waived for want of development."

69 comments:

  1. Shero is not going free anytime soon and Engelhardt will never be known as anything else besides as a child molesting priest.

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    1. and you will forever be a coward who hides behind anonymous.

      never set foot in the courtroom for any part of the trial i am guessing

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    2. No, those who knew Fr. Englehardt will remember him as a great priest and teacher who was good to his students. You are obviously a cad who has an axe to grind.

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  2. HAHAHA... so much for the "abatement" talk. Now this dead pedophile "man of God" will be forever known as a CONVICTED pedophile priest. Justice has been served.

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    1. one persons opinion.

      He will forever be known as a "PRIEST IN GOOD STANDING" (CAPS works) at the time of his death.

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    2. and well deserving of that sendoff by his fellow oblates .......it's truly what was most important to this innocent man......

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  3. Why would I have to ? Are you saying there is a problem with Ralph's reporting of what happened in court ?

    Have you looked lately at your I.D. ? You must be a coward too.

    Now every can see what a fool you are.

    LONG LIVE SETH WILLIAMS.

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    1. How many of the ADAs has Seth slept with in his office?

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  4. We have heard about the whining of wasting tax dollar money on a retrial of McCormick. How much was spent of tax dollar money for judges to uphold Shero and Engelhardt conviction of CHILD MOLESTATION. How about what the DA's office needed of tax dollar money to defend that guilty verdict ?

    RETRY MCCORMICK

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  5. Opinions in both appellate cases before and authored by whom, exactly?

    Just wondering about the politics-

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    1. Engelhart opinion by Judge Mundy, joined by Judges Lazarus and Platt.

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    2. And does that mean Englehart is legally considered to be innocent since abatement went into effect when he passed away after appeals filed on his behalf?

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  6. The judges then affirmed Engelhardt's sentence of 6 to 12 years in jail after being convicted of endangering the welfare of a child, corruption of a minor and indecent assault.

    Ralph can't spell it out any easier unless he would say if Engelhardt came back to life he would spend time in prison as a child molester.

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  7. In other words, the defense lawyers did no legal research and filed appeals that were completely ridiculous. Sounds like the appellate court was stunned by their incompetence. They'll be very lucky if they're not sued for malpractice. Maybe they were so convinced of their clients' guilt that there was no point in looking up any case law, issuing an actual subpoena, or deposing the social worker. Certainly, the Avery debacle showed that these defense counsel failed their clients miserably. I wonder why they did such a bad job. And why everyone here blames everyone but them.

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    1. So did Judge Ceisler. In refusing to strike down Billy Doe'sv wildly inconsistent testimony that changed each day he spoke. With such struck down, the jury would have no choice but to acquit. In the end, Billy Doe put three priest and a teacher in jail and one priest died.

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    2. In defense of defense attorneys... sometimes they just don't have much to work with and more or less have to throw anything (no matter how ludicrous) against the wall in hopes that something will stick. The Catholic "apologists" blame ANYBODY... except the pedophile Catholic priests and teachers that actually committed the sexual abuse of innocent children. Strangely, they never seem to mention the "men of God" within the hierarchy of this religious sect who concealed and even enabled the abuse. That is how they end up with convicted criminals, like Bishop Finn, running the operation in the Kansas City area. The failure of the leaders of the "one true faith" to immediately remove this "man of God" after he admitted that he willfully endangered innocent children in an attempt to conceal the crimes of his friend, Fr. S. Ratigan (What a "saint" that "man of God" turned out to be!), is a shining example of the "cancer" eating away at the very heart of this organization. Anonymous at 6:03 AM, the actions of these pedophile Catholic priests (and teacher) is what put them in jail. They have only themselves to blame for their arrests and convictions. Several juries weighed all of the evidence presented by both sides and rendered their verdict. Justice has been served! All of the wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth by you Catholic "apologists" means nothing. Best to move on and find other pedophile Catholic priests awaiting trial to defend. Take your pick, there are many (in this country as well as others...) to choose from.

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    3. We are talking about the Philadelphia trials of priests and a teacher, not the trials held at other parts of the country. Calling priests pedophiles without having your facts in order does not cut the mustard. If you do not have anything to say, then do not say it.

      Billy Doe put three priests and a teacher in jail by giving false testimony about sexual abuse that was not consistent, but changed each day he testified. Defense attorneys filed motion after motion to strike from the record his testimony which deviated each time he told his story, only to be rebuffed by Judges Sarmina and Ceisler in the two trials held. What other judge would put up with a witness who give testimony that deviated from each time he told his story? No other judge would put up with such and after giving the witness fair warning would take steps to strike from the books such testimony and tell the jury to ignore such testimony from Billy Doe. Ceisler and Sarmina were the exception. Going to court to be deposed as a witness is serious and solemn business, not something fun and frivolous. If Ceisler and Sarmina failed to exercise their judicial responsibilities, they should not be allowed to preside from the bench at all. Sarmina asked to be transferred from criminal court to civil court and her request is granted. If Sarmina could not do her job the way it should be done, how can we have confidence in her ability to preside at a civil trial where thousands of dollars, even millions of dollars are at stake for the rightful victim to claim?

      That is why Superior Court failed all of us by denying the dropping of charges against Englehardt and Shero. They ignored the glaring example of both Ceisler and Sarmina in refusing to strike from the record Billy Doe's testimony. And that is not the way a judge should be doing while sitting on the bench.

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    4. Anon at 7:33 a.m., I'm a bit surprised by your calling me a Catholic apologist, but you can rest assured that I am not. I was merely commenting on the appellate court ruling which really reamed the defense lawyers for making incredibly rookie errors. I was completely convinced of these pedophiles' guilt based on Shero's attempted suicide when being arrested, the Avery debacle which called all of the characters' stories into question, and the testimony of several other witnesses including the matter of children throwing stones at Shero's house to drive him out of the neighborhood. These men are and were pedophiles, and justice was served by these two juries.

      The real point I was making is that since there's no explaining why defense counsel did such a bad job, it may have been done purposefully at the request of the Archdiocese to get these cases over with since there was little hope of getting an acquittal anyway. The Archdiocese seemed to be playing these pedophiles like pawns, and the lawyers were going along with it. I'm not sympathizing with the pedophiles. I'm pointing out the higher crimes of cover-up which are always worse than the original crimes.

      I was also pointing out that the Catholic apologists on this thread are willing to blame everyone else for these convictions (judges, juries, D.A.'s, witnesses, the victim, the criminal justice system) except the criminals themselves and the lawyers who seemed determined to lose these cases because maybe they were taking part in some larger cover-up.

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    5. SarahTX2, I wasn't referring to you when I spoke of Catholic "apologists." Sorry for the confusion. I think the defense attorneys did a bad job because they didn't have much to work with. They were dealt a bad hand (trying to defend a guilty, suicidal pedophile) and there wasn't much to do except let it play out in the way it did. Hence, the throw everything including the proverbial "kitchen sink" at the wall strategy and hope something, anything, sticks. If these pedophile Catholic priests aren't defrocked by the hierarchy of their religious sect then we will all know where THEY stand in regards to the convicted criminals masquerading as "men of God" within their religious sect. If the convicted criminal Bishop Finn is still holding his position of moral and ethical authority over Catholics, I can't say that I hold out much hope that these pedophile Catholic priests will be defrocked. If it had been a priest stealing money, that priest would have been defrocked as quickly as possible. You are right, of course, about the Catholic "apologists" here. The circle of conspiracy against their heroic "men of God" grows ever wider! It now includes several different jury panels, the entire Philadelphia FOP, the entire DA's office, several different trial judges, and now numerous appeals judges, as well as the usual suspects... the media, greedy defense lawyers, the sexual revolution, and my personal favorite, old Satan himself!

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    6. Sarah, the skids were greased by both the church and DA who is Catholic and did brief both Archbishops Bevilacqua and Rigali on what the DA was going to do to avoid needlessly panicking people. In 2010, a motion was made in the Pennsylvania State Legislature to accord abuse victims a two year Statute of Limitations (SOL). Naturally, the Archdiocese objected as they feared hundreds of abuse victims would come out of the woodwork to file lawsuits against priests living or dead. Their names would not be divulged to the public, had this happened about 700-800 people would come out to file lawsuits. And what would the Archdiocese be able to do with this huge avalanche of civil lawsuits? That is why Lynn was a sacrificial lamb in the 12 week trial which was designed to let all victims testify about their abuse (piling on). Putting Lynn in jail along with Avery, Englehardt and teacher Shero was payment sought to blunt off the effects of a 2 year SOL enacted into law by the Pennsylvania State Legislature and signed by the governor or vetoed by him? This motion was allowed to die while the trials took place. That is my theory of what transpired between the Archdiocese and DA.

      Billy Doe had his moment in glory inputting three priests and a teacher in jail based on fabricated testimony. And the Archdiocese only has Billy Doe and another person in the McCormick case to handle instead of 700/800 lawsuits which would have bankrupted them.

      You mentioned Shero's attempted suicide. He felt overwhelmed with depression and having no way to defend himself against unfounded charges. Having bug eyed glasses and having to approach children closely creeped out the children. That is why he became a target of scorn as children stoned windows in his house. Parents were creeped out by him because of their children telling them what a creep he was in the classroom which made it difficult for him to function as a teacher. Archdiocese should have reassigned him to a non teaching job such as curriculum coordinator so that he could earn a gainful living but they did not do it. Billy Doe's fantasy story about being anally raped by him in Pennypack park with his neck tied to a car door is way beyond belief as he had very poor eyesight to be able to do so. Plus, the screaming would have attracted attention from people nearby in the park. Thus, attempted suicide does not imply guilt.

      I am far from a Catholic apologist. I have kids and am very protective of them. What I do not like is the prospect of innocent people put in jail for something they did not do. And I am still convinced that Shero and Englehardt along with Lynn are deserving of their freedom from prison. This position will never change in me.

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    7. 700/800 potential abuse victims which would be a huge number of people claiming abuse in order to score a payoff settlement even though they were never abused - that is my point and what I want to clarify.

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  8. I'll be convinced that the current public (media, cultural) and legal persecution of only Catholic priests is anything less than an honest attempt to bring pedophiles, ephebophiles and pederasts to justice when I see similar public resources seeking the same level of 'justice' for those victims beings abused among the other 30K Christian denominations, within mosques, within synagogues, and last but not least, throughout all public schools- where the majority of minor abuse cases occur (outside of the home). FBI statistics don't lie-time to get a clue, 'Know-Nothings'.

    Until that day- the current persecution is just that, a despicable persecution of Catholics. It's happened before, it's happening again.

    Read a book.

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    1. So you are just mad that your favorite pedophiles got tried and convicted before other pedophiles. I get it. I see sexual abusers in other religious sects as well as teachers getting convicted almost every day. So your assertion that it is only Catholic priests being prosecuted is ludicrous and absurd, as well as laughable. Thanks for the chuckle.

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    2. An appropriate response from a obvious "chucklehead"-

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  9. "Man of God" The term used by others here to describe a abusive priest who only by others here think because he wears a silly outfit is considered a "man of God"

    In makeup, priests (the Engelhardts) are no different then the John Wayne Gacy's, the Adolph Hitlers and Manson's of the world because God gives all men the freedom of choice to make a decision purely of their own free will.

    Sadly Avery, Shero and Engelhardt and most likely McCormick and Brennan made the wrong choice of thinking little children have been put on this earth for their enjoyment.

    In no way as Jae would like to describe it as a "despicable persecution of catholics" but rather if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its a damn duck, and he or she sits by and watches accusations after accusations hit the media without being involved in his own catholic church saying its now time for us the parishioners to take over. Instead he spends time like the rest of you crying catholics writing comments on a blog.

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    1. So true. If these "lemmings" (Catholic apologists) spent half as much time trying to get rid of pedophile priests and their enablers within the hierarchy of their religious sect as they do wailing, moaning, and gnashing their teeth every time yet another one of their "men of God" is convicted of doing terrible things to the most innocent of their flock, they would be in the mess they are in now.

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    2. The fact, as documented here, and elsewhere, is that bigots and other know nothings are out to persecute the Catholic Church, and no other organization, as evidenced by the both media and the states focus on only the Catholic Church. it is a good pay-day, after all- you get to pummel your ideological enemy, and get paid for it.

      Your own words, documented here, indicts these men based purely on their religion. Replace every word "Catholic" or "priest" with homosexual, Muslim or African American- and then try to convince us, again, that you're not bigoted.

      You fool no one, but, yourselves.

      And, this is why you must post Anonymously- as not even a pseudonym is safe for you brave uncloseted bigots.

      Your ignorance of facts is unsurprising

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    3. "...without being involved in his own catholic church saying its now time for us the parishioners to take over..."

      Me thinks thou dost PROTEST too much, dear Protestant.

      Just another 'Know Nothing' bigot.

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    4. Awwww... poor persecuted Catholic "apologists!" I AM bigoted... against child sexual predators masquerading as "men of God" as well as those within the hierarchy of this religious sect who concealed and enabled the abuse of the most innocent of their flock... the children. Here's a FACT for you. Your heroes (pedophile Catholic priests AND a Catholic school teacher) will forever be known as CONVICTED child sexual predators. And you will be forever known as one who will excuse any behavior, no matter how foul and disgusting (and ILLEGAL), committed by a Catholic priest or Catholic school teacher. Are those two absolute truths enough facts for you, sad little Jae?!

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    5. How about Protestant, Muslim, Atheist and Jewish 'apologists'- are you on their blogs demanding 'justice' for their lying drug addicts?

      Or, is it just the Catholics you worry about?

      Busted.

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    6. Sorry,

      Avery, Engelhardt, Shero and Lynn have been BUSTED.

      ....and one day you will accept there is not one damn thing you can do about it, as your "men of god are tossed into prison and forgotten.

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    7. Rest assured, sad little Jae... the minute I see Protestant, Muslim, Atheist, Jewish, or any other "apologists" defending the pedophiles that THEY identify with, on this blog or any other, I will call them out just like I called YOU out. FYI, bitterly complaining that the pedophiles from your religious sect are being tried AND convicted more than the pedophiles from other groups is not a very good tactic. It's not even true, and, anytime a child sexual predator is brought to justice it is something to be celebrated, no matter what group they belong to. However, I am sure that you will have many more opportunities to refine and present your specious lamentations of unfairness that the "men of God" of your religious sect aren't able to get away with their crimes like the pedophiles from other groups.

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    8. They don't need anyone to defend them, Chucklehead, that is the point- no one is persecuting the others- only the Catholics are targeted.

      You remind me of another lost soul that used to post here.

      Anyone heard from DennisEcker, lately?



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    9. Jae, you've become so sanctimonious that your previous comments here will be ignored. And you had some good comments a while back. And now you want to call out Dennis Ecker. Why?

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    10. Why not- is he some sort of god to the anti-Catholic bigots here?

      It is absolutely appropriate to invoke Ecker's name when irrational and redundant comments continue to originate from the same, very similar (in use of language, rhetoric, bigotry) Anonymous poster. This same commenter also has the rather emotionally questionable habit of posting responses to his own previous submittals (just because you hide among the gaggle of Anons doesn't mean we can't differentiate one from the other).

      Just because you do not agree with your opposition does not mean they are sanctimonious, it just means you disagree.

      Jut because you can't effectively respond to comments with which you disagree, those whose foundations are based in fact, does not mean they will be ignored.

      This might come as an ego stomper to you, but, you may not the intended audience or catalyst for many or most comments here.

      And since you invoked 'sanctimony' -the veracity or measurement of my comments do not rest on your metrics, dear "Kettle".

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    11. SarahTX2, don't ignore sad little Jae. Every time this sad little defender of Catholic pedophile priests speaks it illustrates to the public how far some Catholic "apologists" are willing to go to in defense of their child sexual predators disguised as "men of God." Crying out in anger because the pedophiles from his religious sect aren't able to sexually abuse innocent children like pedophiles from other groups is a perfect example of this. This is a common complaint from Catholic "apologists." The fact that this argument ("Our pedophile priests should be able to sexually abuse innocent children just like the pedophiles from group X, Y, or Z!!!") has been ridiculed and scoffed at and widely rejected by society is what fuels the anger of these Catholic "apologists." It is the sort of "logic" that children use. "They do it... why can't we?" Most decent people in society are glad when child sexual predators (especially those who pretend to be "men of God") are finally brought to justice for their horrible crimes. Not sad little Jae... he (or she) only has two arguments to fall back on... One being that there is some sort of massive conspiracy against Catholics and the entire world is involved... and the other being "our" pedophiles should be able to get away with their crimes just like other (non-Catholic) pedophiles get away with their crimes against children. The more people ridicule these "apologists" talking points, the angrier these Catholic "apologists" get.

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  10. This decision, once again, shows the cowardly make up of the Pennsylvania judicial system.

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    1. Cowardly ?

      Listen up everyone Anon @ 11:18 has spoken. We must release all inmates convicted of sexual abuse of children if they are priests.

      Not to worry though it will be only catholic children who are abused again and again.

      It would be more humane to put them on a altar and use them as sacrificial lambs that way they would never have to live through the horror everyday of what your priests do.

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    2. so enlighten us, you were in the sacristy or Shero's car back in 1998 and 1999.....you and you alone have the only tape of those alleged assaults? I seriously doubt it .....which is it?? if not, besides the absurd verdict of those jurors who were predisposed to consider anyone with Archdiocesan ties to be automatically guilty, what proof do you have those assaults occurred which they didn't......same applies to McCormick, no proof just the word of lying drug addicts and scam artists like danny Gallagher.....

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  11. OFFICIAL RULING

    The Pennsylvania Superior Court yesterday affirmed Charles Engelhardt’s convictions of Endangering the Welfare of a Child, Corruption of a Minor, and Indecent Assault. Englehardt, a Catholic priest who had been in residence at St. Jerome’s Church in Northeast Philadelphia, plied a ten-year-old altar boy with communion wine, forced the child to disrobe, and then sexually assaulted him in the church sacristy in the late 1990’s.

    This is how Engelhardt will be remembered. A monster.

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    1. One man's opinion again - can we get some original thoughts here. Your comments are stale

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    2. All present-day Catholic martyrs will be remembered and revered as such, and nothing less.

      Jesus Christ was wrongly convicted, as were all the persecuted who followed him.

      He told us that we would have to bear His cross in order to follow Him.

      Catholics are better prepared to do Gods will than are most others- we have many true and good martyrs as examples to follow.

      We are the Church Militant. We have outlived all others.

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    3. are you still on drugs, heroin, or perhaps the choice of many these days, cocaine perhaps.....have a problem with alcohol???be honest.....oops, that's often a difficult thing when you are under the influence...your recollections become hazy, etc etc...

      to recall those eloquent words of danny when confronted with the gigantic discrepancy between his first story of abuse, that being 5 hours on a weekday morning in the middle of the school year, abuse story #2 told to the detective and version #3 told to the grand jury,

      "I DONT REMEMBER, I DON"T REMEMBER I DON"T REMEMBER>>>>>

      what a con artist......

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    4. To recall the eloquent words of several juries and now several appeal judges... GUILTY! GUILTY! GUILTY!

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  12. Philly com has printed a truncated story yesterday of the verdicts upheld by Superior Court which does not match what we have here in Big Trial! And no comments allowed by this esteemed newspaper as if they think the low collective IQ's of its readers will accept their interpretation of the Superior Court verdict.

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  13. That story is a disgrace to journalism.

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    1. Essentially a press release from the DAs office.

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    2. Phiily.com: just another fine example of the msm doing the bidding of the vicious anti-Catholic lobby.

      Beware that the current administrations net neutrality (Trojan Horse) doesn't muzzle BT and other dissenting, and honest outlets.

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  14. Suicide bombers consider themselves as martyrs. They hurt and kill people. I would then consider priests and those who TRY to defend them as martyrs. They go out and hurt and kill the souls of people.

    With one exception. Priests and the church only go after children.

    Keep calling your abusive priests martyrs. We know what you mean.

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    1. For those of you with borderline IQs, and personalities, here is the definition (fact) of (Catholic) Christian martyrs.

      http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09736b.htm

      You may honor your suicide bombers as you see fit.

      Imagine how these same bigots distort other truths inside of courtrooms.

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    2. Your pedophile priests are not martyrs. They are convicted criminals.

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  15. I believe no priest is a martyr, they are as you say convicted criminals but you are being polite by using such a title, but sometimes its better to patronize people like Jae and let them think as they wish. Let them believe their excuses if it gets them through the day.

    It is sad though they cannot come to accept the truth, repair the problem and hope for the best. Instead the catholic church is and will continue to have the biggest exodus of any faith in history. When the Pope is counting down the days until he leaves and you see television commercials put out by the catholic church begging people to return there is a real problem in my opinion.

    http://www.catholicscomehome.org/

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  16. "I believe no priest is a martyr, they are as you say convicted criminals..."

    All of them? Really?

    "...you see television commercials put out by the catholic church begging people to return there is a real problem in my opinion."

    Except for the fact that this is an independent non-profit organization, not the Catholic Church.

    "It is sad though they cannot come to accept the truth..."

    Well, at least you got that part right - about yourself and the rest of the anti Catholic bigots.

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  17. I smell fear and desperation in the air and its coming from your local Catholic church.

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  18. Jae the last time I looked the Catholic Church is a independent supposedly non-profit organization.

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  19. So, all NPOs are really the same NPO just because they are NPOs- in that all priests are guilty of minor abuse just because an insignificant (less than the statistical margin of error) minority of them (generally, pederasts and ephebophiles, not pedophiles) did so?

    Shall we apply your ridiculous broad brush to all groups of people?

    Lets start with Muslims- are all Muslims Islamic terrorists just because a minority (a much greater majority than are offending Catholic priests) of them are?

    How about racial minorities- want to reveal your real name under the proposal that all black men are criminals because a minority of them are?

    How about just you- are you prepared to assume the moral, ethical and legal burden of your own demographic? Assuming you're a white, non-Catholic male, shall we cloak you in the sheets of the KKK?

    Nah- didn't think so, genius.

    And, here is the perfect example of the [il]logic and hatred that persecutes innocent priests.

    Oh yeah, I am sure the 'smell of desperation and fear" emanating from the Church is greater today than ever before in Her glorious 2,000 year history- and counting.

    http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/02/catholic-church-growing-baptist-and-mainline-protestant-numbers-decline/

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/world/catholics-around-the-world/



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  20. Instead of posting exaggerated links from 2011.

    Lets look at the facts posted as recently as January 2015

    Rev. Jae you may want to start looking for another job. Hopefully not around children.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2015/01/an-honest-look-at-catholicisms-decline/

    ReplyDelete
  21. ....Because the atheist and irreligious musings at Patheos (aka 'Patheticos') are a much better source for verifiable statistics than the National Council of Churches, or WaPo sources.

    ....And, because demographic trends are mere annual occurrences.

    But, you bigots are OK with persecuting men, with no evidence, based solely upon highly suspect accusations from drug addicts and other sundry liars' multiple and differing accounts of purported 'abuse' events that occurred generations ago.

    I suppose your evidence of risk to children around me is as strong as all the others against innocent priests - it's all just based upon the alcohol and illicit drug drenched fantasies of anti-Catholic bigots.




    ReplyDelete
  22. Well the courts have spoken like it or not and till a better search for facts and evidence is provided by investigators in law enforcment and the Church their will always be some doupt. With that said those Catholic racist bigots who.s hate is so strong can.t see the damage Billy Doe and Leo has done here is sad but i get it But i never thought i would say this but my hatred for Muslim turbin wearing terrorist and the constant use of the race card in this country by a few who can.t take responsibility for there actions and blame others is sickening and getting worst and i have pretty much had my fill with them and there religious beliefs. So for u Catholic haters the only way you.ll understand the damage here is if your daughters or gay sons start dating a Billy Doe or Leo put that hook in him or her selling there asses to support there own habits. Or may be bring home a sand democrart who.s hatred is like yours thats what will draw him or her to them and u can be proud when they become martyrs either way like these parents who blame the church for the way there children turned out you.ll find someone to blame too instead of looking in the mirror and see the truth for what it is.
    Give them hell Jae for they know not what they do. Lol

    ReplyDelete
  23. Yeah JB has taken his meds today.

    Since I must be considered one of those Catholic racist bigots I have to ask this. What damage has Billy or Leo done ?

    Going by the scorecard I have and YOU have. We have once again seen who has caused the damage. Priests in prison and victims free.

    Lets not forget to rub salt in the wound. Victim will walk away not only with his freedom but more money then you can count. Probably some of your money.

    Give me hell. JB I'm surprised you can spell it. But rest assured that is where Engelhardt is.











    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And what are the odds of being raped by three priests and a teacher WITHOUT complaining to your parents? One billion to one. And to find a black DA willing to create a fantasy of a case into two trials for both groups of people charged accordingly and to have willling judges bin Sarmina and Ceisler to blunt the defense and fan the flames toward a surefire conviction is way above belief. I find itv shocking that Superior court would deny relief to Englehardt and Shero on procedural grounds instead of focusing onb the changing stories uttered by Billy Doe and the refusal by Ceisler tov drop the testimony from the record. That is the crux of the case.

      Delete
  24. ....and what are the odds that one 10 year old child at St. Jerome's can pick out from the school staff, a rectory full of priests 3 individuals who ALL had questionable behavior around children. Avery had a past, Engelhardt had a past and so did Shero. This is not saying a child abuser has to have a past.

    God almighty can stand in front of you and say "yes they are guilty" and your mindset will only come up with more excuses.

    These comments are getting entirely old. You believe they are innocent I believe they are guilty. But who admitted to raping Billy and who did a jury and a superior court uphold the convictions and sentencing on ?

    YOU LOSE even with all your excuses.



    ReplyDelete
  25. Even one wrongful conviction is too many. Our system of justice was developed to err on the side of caution and assume innocence, with a mandate that the state prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, one's guilt- and not use the media and prevailing culture to condemn the accused publicly prior to undertaking procedural justice.

    The noose you construct for Catholics out of bigotry (the master all nooses serve) will be placed around your or your family members necks, eventually.

    When US Constitutional and human rights are distorted, manipulated and violated to accommodate cultural biases, everyone loses.

    http://www.innocenceproject.org/causes-wrongful-conviction

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. See... what did I tell you? Now after several guilty verdicts by different juries, and a decision to uphold those convictions by several Appeals Court Judges, we get the "apologists" lamenting some nefarious, world wide anti-Catholic bias. Evidently, every time a pedophile who happens to be Catholic is convicted for sexually abusing innocent children, you see two arguments... the "...world wide conspiracy against Catholics..." argument and the "...well, others from group, X, Y, or Z do it, why must you pick on our men of God for doing it?"

      Delete
  26. LET IT GO. ITS OVER.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Will I receive this so-called "noose" on what you call my judgement day by your God who condones the rape, torture and the killing of innocent children or will it be from one of your male Catholic priests or followers. See I don't think so because I'm adult and your kind only go after children. Its bad enough your priests are accused of rape but not one accusation of a priest attempting to sexually torture an adult except for that nut at the gym who tried to grab someones genitals.

    Your church is made up of a lot of tuff guys.You should leave the threats up to your nuns. Now that's a lot of crazy women.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not even the least bit anti-Catholic - are you, bigot?

      And, all bigoted remarks made under the cover of Anonymous and from the comfort of your mothers basement.

      You're just a common troll.

      Delete

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