Monday, May 13, 2013

Catholic League Seeks Investigation of District Attorney's Office

By Ralph Cipriano
for Bigtrial.net

Bill Donohue
The Catholic League has asked a state disciplinary board to investigate whether any member of the district attorney's office has a financial interest in Billy Doe's civil suit against the Archdiocese of Philadelphia.

Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, sent a May 9th letter seeking an investigation to Anthony P. Sodroski, Disciplinary Counsel-in-Charge of the Disciplinary Board of the state Supreme Court.

In the letter, which he released to the press, Donohue stated, "What needs to be settled is whether someone from the office of D.A. Seth Williams will be receiving a referral fee for his work in connection with the 'Billy Doe' civil suit" against the Archdiocese of Philadelphia."

"You should know that we are pursuing other avenues of redress in this case," Donohue wrote Sodroski. "Never in my 20 years as president of the Catholic League have I seen a more egregious series of legal misconduct stemming from one case. All I am asking from you is cooperation in this particular matter."

A spokesman for the Disciplinary Board said it's office policy not to confirm or deny whether a complaint has been received.

The issue of whether someone in the district attorney's office may be receiving a referral fee for Billy Doe's civil suit against the archdiocese was first raised on Jan. 16th during the trial of Father Charles Engelhardt and Bernard Shero.

On cross-examination, Michael J. McGovern, attorney for Father Engelhardt, asked Billy Doe about who had lined him up with the civil attorney who filed the suit against the archdiocese.

"His name was given to us," Billy Doe replied.

"By another attorney?" McGovern asked.

"By the D.A.'s office," Billy Doe said.

"Who in the D.A.'s office gave you the name of a civil lawyer?" McGovern asked.

"I don't know," Doe replied. "It wasn't given to me."

"Who was it given to, your mom?"

"My parents," Doe said.

"Is it one of the prosecutors here?" McGovern asked.

"I cannot tell you," Doe replied. "It was not handed to me."

The D.A.'s office has repeatedly declined comment on the matter.

In a voice mail, Doe's civil lawyer said, "The D.A. had nothing to do" with the referral, and that it came from another lawyer who did not respond to a request for comment.

Samuel C. Stretton is a lawyer with offices in West Chester and Philadelphia who, over the past 30 years, has represented hundreds of lawyers in disciplinary proceedings; he also writes regularly on the subject of legal ethics.

"It's not wrong [for a district attorney] to suggest going to see a civil attorney," Stretton said. "It's not wrong to even suggest the names of multiple attorneys, Stretton said, although the best thing to do would have been for the district attorney to refer the victim to the local bar association.

"But if the district attorney got a referral fee that would be totally wrong," Stretton said. "Then you've got a vested interest in getting a conviction and you can no longer be the minister of justice that you're supposed to be."

The Catholic League, which bills itself as the "world's largest Catholic civil rights organization," has expressed an interest in the Engelhardt-Shero case, as well as the previous conviction of Msgr. William J. Lynn, and the plea bargain of former priest Edward V. Avery.

All four men are in jail as the result of District Attorney Seth Williams's self-described "historic" prosecution of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia

Avery is serving 2 1/2 to 5 years after pleading guilty on March 22, 2012 to involuntary deviate sexual intercourse with a child, and conspiring with Msgr. Lynn to endanger the welfare of a child. The victim of both crimes was Billy Doe.

Avery's guilty plea preceded the June 22, 2012 conviction of Lynn on one count of endangering the welfare of a child, namely Doe. Lynn is now serving a 3 to 6 year sentence.

Engelhardt and Shero are in jail pending sentencing June 12. Engelhardt is facing a maximum sentence of 37 years; Shero, 57. Both men were convicted of sexually abusing Billy Doe.

"The Catholic League is not walking away from this issue," Donohue said in a statement released today. Donohue praised the "crackerjack reporting" on this blog, and said "the public has been kept in the dark on many aspects of what really happened to three Catholic priests and one Catholic layman. That is about to change. Stay tuned."


72 comments:

  1. Which is it Mr. DA? You can't have it both ways. So we are to believe everything "Billy Doe" says in court(all 5 different versions of his stories). But the part about you referring him to a civil lawyer is a lie? Shouldn't the defense have recalled the mother to the stand and questioned her further about this issue? Ralph, could this have been grounds for a mistrial right then and there? And if so, did the defense ask for a mistrial? How did this get overlooked? I hope the Catholic league goes after the DA's office and get this straightened out, this is ridiculous.

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  2. Now there's a real waste of time......asking the Disciplinary Board of the Supreme Court of PA to investigate attorney conduct and decision-making.
    I know from direct, first-hand experience with Chief Disciplinary Counsel Paul Killion that his office is incapable and unwilling to conduct a professional, reasonable and objective investigation of attorney conduct that was both unprofessional and unreasonable.

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    1. Hi Mike. I tend to agree with you. These lawyers (and judges) take care of one another.

      IMHO, what's needed is a prompt, impartial and thorough investigation by the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office.

      Maybe as the campaign to elect the next mayor of Philadelphia starts up, the local media will be awakened from their comatose states and provide some long overdue coverage.

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    2. Like bishops so.

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    3. Do you really think anyone takes Billy the Bully Donahue seriously? He's a joke.

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    4. Anon,

      You should be so fabulous at what you do, whatever that may have been! Calling someone names like "a joke" (which you could easily be called just because you make useless comments) says nothing. A child can call people names.

      Delete
    5. I am fabulous at what I do Josie. How about you?

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  3. Why Bill Donohue,,,,why not the Archdiocese of Philadelphia??

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    1. Good question. Where is the archbishop on this one?

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  4. The DA is getting stuck between a rock and a hard place the more the case goes forward as far as a judicial solution is concerned. Who would want someone like Seth who did the equivalent of pulling a false fire alarm to watch the firefighters converge on the scene? A good DA would have thoroughly investigated the case and listened to his ADA's who had doubts on the veracity of the multiple stories spun by Billy Doe before pulling the trigger on beginning this "historic" trial of the Catholic Church.

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  5. Next step has to be the FEDs Both judges and the DA's office could easily be prosecuted under this law.
    itle 18, U.S.C., Section 242
    Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law

    This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.

    This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.

    Acts under "color of any law" include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under "color of any law," the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.

    Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

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  6. This entire scenario needs to be investigated, innocent men sit in jail as a result of this travesty of justice. And yes, that is the exact testimony of "billy doe" himself who stated clearly that the Philadelphia DA's office referred him and his family to a specific civil attorney. Having a vested interest in the outcome of the Engelhardt/Shero case as well as the earlier case involving Msgr Lynn is unethical for any DA. What happened to these priests and layperson was criminal misconduct, to say the least.

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  7. Ohhhhhh... big, bad, Bill Donohue! Yawn. This blowhard has no standing, no involvement in this case (convictions all around by a jury of peers), and no new relevant evidence (and CERTAINLY no evidence of wrong doing in the DA's office) to offer. The "defendants" and the Catholic Church in Philadelphia got what they deseved. Deal with it, or not... it is only too bad the other members of the Catholic hierarchy involved mamaged to worm their way out of justice.

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    1. Oh yea, Bill Donohue, the Karl Rove of the RCC, even after they have become irrelevant they continue to blow smoke up our a...!

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    2. Anon 852AM - Your comment reminds me of a former blogger on this site.

      So if innocent men sit in jail (falsely convicted, reputations destroyed, etc.), would your opinion be that Catholic church in Philadelphia got what it deserved?

      No innocent person should have to lose their freedom for the sins and errors of others.

      The other members of the clergy were given a free pass by the very same DA whose decision it was to try this so called "historical" case. Have you not read the grand jury report and all the errors it contains? Read ralph's article on the timeline of events for this case, it will show you just how much corruption Mr. Williams asked of his employees.

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    3. Both Anon's at 8.52 and 11.11 you are so completely correct.

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  8. Billy is the one that should be investigated for fowl air and word pollution

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  9. Bill Donohue, president and sole member of the Catholic League?
    That Bill Donohue?

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  10. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  11. I'm back. But before posting any comments I want to make it clear that I have been asked to return by Ralph Cipriano. Now I will admit some previous comments may have gone over the line. I at no time have I asked Ralph to return.

    I post this to see if it will be published and not censored. I expect the censors to follow a guide line not only for what I post but for everyone else who has something they would like to say, and if anyone who crosses the line should expect to be censored and that includes myself.

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    1. I'd like to say that Dennis and I have had a nice dialogue and we are going to give it another shot. Everybody has their critics, and in a forum such as this, the critics deserve to have their say. So have at it!

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  12. Here we go then.

    Ralph, really Bill Donahue ? I and others here have accused you of being bias regarding this subject but this guy is in a league of his own. The man who will put an all out attack on anything and everything that HE feels is inappropriate. I truly wonder if this guy had a coronary when the play GodSpell came out.

    You and I and others have been at this from the very beginning, but in defense for the clergy members and teacher were was Bill Donahue a long time ago ? This only appears to be "Custards Last Stand" as the sentencing date comes closer and closer.

    As Jane states above where is the Archdiocese ? Where is Chaput ? or has Chaput given the green light to Donahue to speak for him ? It only seems that the rcc especially the rcc in Philadelphia does not want to dirty their hands in defending the 3+1 of its members.

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    1. Dennis- Please get real and grownup. I doubt that Archbishop Chaput has ever even talked to Mr. Donahue let alone would let him speak for him. There are many, many other things going on the the Church in Philadelphia which take up the Archbishop's time, talent, and leadership. It is a large and vibrant Church but how would you know? You are not in it as you have stated. And that is fine, just don't think that the issue that consumes you consumes active Church members(or inactive ones either.) Why do you keep attacking the Archbishop? It is getting so old....

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    2. Oh yea Ms Billie is definitely in a league of h*& own, The Catholic League (rim shot).

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    3. Catholic League is funded by some diocese of the Roman Catholic Church

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    4. @Josie - I see you wish to continue to defend and ride the coat tails of nothing more than an ordinary man who eats, breathes and bleeds like you and I. If you feel that by doing so it will earn your spot in heaven at the right hand side of God continue to do so. I will respect that.

      Although you must also respect my questions to and about this ordinary man.

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  13. Not a good sign for the cause. Being aligned with Bill Donohue is practically a death knell. Sorry, Ralph, this is pretty much a dead end.

    The good news is maybe this will finally garner national attention and cause people to ask questions about the Catholic League. Like, how many members does the "world's largest Catholic civil rights organization" have? More than 10? Maybe 20? Is the Catholic League sanctioned by the Catholic Church? Or is it really just a guy with a fax machine in the basement who found a way to get rich off of a tax-exempt organization?

    How rich is Bill Donohue? Well, let's have a look at one of their tax-exempt filings:

    http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/237/237279981/237279981_200812_990.pdf

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    1. Hilarious - Sarah SNAP Kleman asking about Bill Donohue's earnings. She's just smarting because the long since irrelevant SNAP is going bankrupt now there are no cases left for them to suck money from corrupt contingency lawyers on.

      The latest figures are in - and it's bad news for SNAP, the legal charlatans and the false accusers. StoneBridge Business Partners, which conducted the latest child abuse survey reported that for 2012 there were 6 credible accusations of some sort of abuse of minors by priests. 6 too many for sure; but out of 40,000 priests that's a minute fraction. Especially compared with other religions, public schools, sports clubs, and of course families. But SNAP is not interested in any of that, of course.

      By the way, how was Ireland - hope all those tears at the complete flop didn't ruin the Guinness. Barb's final billing was a classic - "Where Do We Go From Here?" Uh, home with our tails between our legs. I do feel a reading from "Kathy's Story" would have been more appropriate entertainment. I'm sure journalist Hermann Kelly would have been happy to oblige.

      Great to have someone like Bill Donohue on this. Hence all the squealing above. As with the Gosnell case, so with this one. Nowhere to hide now.

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    2. No idea what you're talking about or who you're talking to. I have zero affiliation with SNAP and I haven't been to Ireland. Don't know who Hermann Kelly is and what Kathy's Story is. What in God's name are you babbling about?

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    3. That's right, Sarah Kleman, you really have no idea.

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    4. I don't care if you know my name. Are you some sort of thug?

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  14. Donohue's rants are empty allegations based on conjecture and don't deserve to even be acknowledged.
    It's sad watching Cipriano cave to Catholic manipulation of the news, I thought he was smarter than that.
    -Kay Ebeling,
    Producer City of Angels Blog
    http://cityofangels12.blogspot.com

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    1. Kay! Oh dear, Kay! "Catholic manipulation of the news"?
      You should speak with Sarah SNAP Kleman. I believe they might need a stand-up comedy act at their next international conference.

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    2. And Sarah can lead everyone in charades.

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    3. Kay here's my scenario. Imagine a reporter who needs work, imagine also he's got a problem: drugs or women or gambling; or perhaps a religious connection for spiritual and or recovery issues.
      Imagine a group that deals with wise guy issues in a adversarial kind of a way in a rather connected city.
      Reporter is given work by said firm. a blog possibly.
      Is that reporter paid for his blog?
      We don't know.
      Is there in any way, any benefit to him; or is this really a cause this reporter believes in?
      Funny right now he seems to be the only reporter who believes it that an injustice has occurred.Except possibly for a psuedoprogressive Catholic newspaper from Missouri that reports on said reportage.
      None the less. Oh Ralph won't print this anyway

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    4. Jim, for the record, Mr. Beasley pays me. And let's not knock any lawyer who's helping the national unemployment rate by providing steady free-lance work for a couple of print dinosaurs. And yes, I actually do believe in what I write. I would also not be so dismissive of the National Catholic Reporter, as they are the paper that led the way in exposing clerical sex abuse. They saw a legitimate contrarian story here; you, however, still have those blinders on.

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    5. Well old Dobin can still pull the shay and can see what's in front of him.
      Dude make your money as you can. I'm not judging I just want all the info possible.
      In a chess game it isn't the figures that know what behavior they are supposed to have. It's the chess player who makes the pawn move only.
      one square.
      It's not the pawns idea it's the guy moving him.
      Sometimes people, people in need of jobs for example are moved by attraction or distraction. Not a very hard thing to accomplish really.
      I've always felt the whole Philly show was just that a show meant to perhaps turn the tide against victims and for the Church.
      After all the goings on, all the subterfuge I am surprised at nothing the Church would do in this scandal. So if there's a tide turning effort by Bill Donahue that begins an unraveling due to Philly Remember you heard it from me first. It's a plan.
      As far as NCR goes when I am banned for simply as a victim activist criticizing SNAP and it's policies. It tells me free speech isn't very important to the National Catholic Reporter. It seems in the case of NCR, the liberal press aint.

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    6. Just Stone, First Kay Ebling has been treated outrageously by the Church and SNAP what a non coincidence.
      The idea that Kay would be a SNAP supporter is nonsense.
      Secondly,
      If Barbra Blaine ended the First International SNAP conference in Ireland with a "Where do we go from here" speech believe me she didn't wait for a response. SNAP never does. I'm positive she told the participants exactly where "they" were going and it wasn't just to the airport.
      Barbra plays the great martyr, how much SHE suffers for victims. She never mentions how much suffering she's CAUSED victims.
      I only wish the readers could attend a SNAP conference: 3 days at an expensive hotel, a hotel most victims could never afford, Programing jammed at participants. Loud, very loud music played in the meeting room drowning out membership conversation between "events" and one show, excuse me, event right on top of each other and nothing originating from the masses all top down presentations.
      At the first national SNAP conference in '03 We were "given" the former San Diego Chicken as a motivational speaker (I only wish I was making this up) who told the victims present that we needed to "get over it". It being our abuse. You know, I always look to guys who aren't victims who dress up in chicken costumes for ways to heal my horror. Doesn't everyone?
      Do you actually think anyone who really cared about victims would subject them to the San Diego Chicken for a "motivational speech"?(And chicken little was PAID for that speech)

      Neither do I.

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  15. Sarah Billy earns $400,000 a year representing a Catholic laity that barely exists anymore. $400,000! That much for Buffalo Billy and not one safe house for victims.

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  16. Sorry, can't take that William Donohue seriously. He's an "Archie Bunker" double.......in style, demeanor, temperament, bluster, ignorance and appearance.
    Of course, given the information provided earlier, he clearly makes much more money than Archie ever did.

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    1. Bill Donohue an "Archie Bunker" double? You have to be kidding! Donohue holds a Ph.D. in history, is a former university professor, has published extensively and his logic is flawless.

      Donohue does not deny that horrible things happened in the past and that bishops of previous generations made erroneous decisions regarding the placement of abuser clerics. However, he is rightly incensed by the duplicity of the Philadelphia D.A. to prosecute and destroy the lives of four men for a crime that never occurred. That is what is at issue here; not the failures of the hierarchy in the past nor the crimes of other clerics who are now either dead or beyond the reach of the law because of the S.O.L.

      Carroll O'Connor was a sophisticated Shakespearean actor who was also a devout Catholic. One of the reasons he played the role of "Archie Bunker" was to help destroy the bigotry of his day which was directed to minorities and other classes of people. He was extremely successful.

      If Donohue employs some of O'Connor's acting skills in order to destroy the last acceptable prejudice - anti-Catholicism - then I say bravo to him. As the old expression puts it: the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

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    2. Anonymous.......please don't confuse education with maturity. That's really all need be said re many "highly-regarded" leaders in their field. But, please, do not try to convince us that "his logic is flawless."

      I really don't believe that Donohue is employing "acting skills" in the style of Carroll O'Connor to draw attention to anti-Catholic bias and prejudice. That's the frightening part here.......William Donohue isn't "acting".

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    3. Anonymous @12:36pm, very well put. Bill Donohue performs a very valuable role for Catholics of good faith in the US. He is an articulate, intelligent person for whom I have the greatest admiration. Those on this board who seem to expect a personal engraved apology from him for every historical incident of clerical abuse are clearly very confused people. He is head of a Catholic civil rights organization. While he has unreservedly condemned clergy abuse many times, his job is to identify and expose defamation and discrimination against, and defend the rights of, Catholics. Worryingly for the judges and DA’s office, it is something he does with great vigor and tenacity.

      As for the robotic chorus calls for apologies, where have you been for the last years? Evidently not on this planet if you really believe the Catholic Church has not acknowledged and apologized for the historical incidents of child abuse. That the church has too often failed to address past problems of abusive clergy has been frankly admitted by everyone from Popes John Paul II and Benedict to the U.S. bishops in 2002. Has any other organization done the same, and made reparations to anywhere near the same extent?

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    4. Regarding Anon 12:36, Ever hear of Whited Seplacures? (I know I misspelled it)That's America's Bully Bill. He tries to tone himself down but he can't do it. The bigotry that oozes from every pore comes through. And the mendacity. I smell beer money here too.
      And let me say this about people with degrees. There are the good the bad and the ugly and I think Dr. Bill Donahue has the last 2 sewn up.

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    5. ".....He is head of a Catholic civil rights organization..."

      Justone1618.....just thought you would like to know but our youngest Catholic faithful, children and teenagers, have "civil rights" too. Wish that Billy would support those C.R. with as much vigor and tenacity that he does for Church management and leadership.

      "....Has any other organization done the same, and made reparations to anywhere near the same extent?

      In the Philadelphia Archdiocese cases of sexual abuse, Justone1618, do you know the amount of money for reparations to the victims? I am not aware of any public information relative to what financial compensation our archdiocese has provided to the victims for the destruction of their lives.

      ".......acknowledged and apologized......"

      I think we covered these before. Justone1618, if you don't realize that there are more important concerns than these from our Catholic Church leaders, then I guess you do not understand those advocating on behalf of our children, their protection, security and legal access to the system, criminally and civilly.

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    6. Hooray! Except the Church has done bugger all.
      It's scratched and fought and clawed it's way in and out and in again through the entire appellate judicial system all the way to the Supreme Court pushing at first, The Church's right to not disclose anything regarding it's sex abuse of it's children BECAUSE IT'S A RELIGION.

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    7. “Except the Church has done bugger all”? Actually, I think you’ll find that the Church:

      -has trained over 6 million children in providing them skills to protect them from abuse (through specially designed programs created by prominent child safety experts)

      -has trained over 2 million adults, including over 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse

      -has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests

      -has installed review boards in nearly all dioceses, with the purpose of the boards being to thoroughly review all credible allegations of abuse

      -has installed “Victim Assistance Coordinators” in every diocese

      All of which has resulted in practically zero cases of clerical molestation as reported last week.

      Sorry if you feel threatened by the truth.

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    8. Sorry if you forgot to mention the already injured.
      What about that part of the truth Just Stone?
      Victims assistance co-ordinators well whoop de doo! Problem solved FOR YOU.

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  17. So bill donohue has never seen such egregious behavior ? Is bill going to pursue the enablers and abusers in the rcc with the same energy or will he continue to spin positive and protect the evil hierarchy. I guess bill will continue his diatribe and not tell about the VICTIMS lives that have been destroyed by the very people he tries to protect.

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  18. Most likely scenario is that the Appellate Court will save prosecutors from themselves by dismissing the cases against the three priests and a teacher based on appellate findings submitted by their defense lawyers.

    Then critics and victims will see that those accused served some time in prison even though their cases were thrown out and they freed. And thus, conclusion will be made that those four individuals served time in jail for the sins allegedly committed by others decades past aud far from the reaches of prosecution due to the expiration of the statute of limitations and passing on.

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  19. Ralph, Justone is beginning to sound a bit threatening. You censored Dennis when you felt it was needed. I have never been affiliated with SNAP although I advocate for the same things they do. Nevertheless this Justone person is intent on portraying me as being other than I am. Please look into this or have someone at the law firm find out if I am being pursued in some way. This blog is supposed to promote different points of view.

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    1. You have posted bigoted comments about the Catholic Church here and elsewhere. That makes you a bigot. Above, you, like others, unfairly attack Bill Donohue. On other sites you spread misinformation. Yet you don't like it when the tables are turned on you.
      If you can't stand the heat.....

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    2. My goodness, Sarah- You missed the point AGAIN! Dennis was censored because he was lacking some control and posted a repeat comment 100X- Ralph said he could have his opinion and had to not do that again-obey the big boy/girl rules that we all do. This blog accepts (not "promotes", take note) different points of view-including yours!

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    3. Sarah, maybe I missed something, but I didn't read any threats. Can you point them out to me? As Kay pointed out, I may not be smart enough to catch it.

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    4. I agree Sarah I feel threats from this guy. And I don't like his behavior either.

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    5. Let's try this once again. Show me a specific threat.

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    6. @Sarah, you have done right by reporting how you feel to Ralph. It is now record. It is like someone who is afraid of heights, clowns or birds. Some of us may not understand ones fear but to the one who is going through that fear it is very real. I wish I could say there is something that Ralph can do at this point, but I don't see it. However, remember this. justone1618 still hides behind that so called title. NOT man or woman enough to let the rest of us know who they really are. Take strength from that this individual not only in my eyes, but in the eyes of many here is a coward.

      Now to you Josie. I hope I don't have to write this again. There is NO back alley agreement between myself and Ralph. As you state "Ralph said he could have his opinion and had to not do that again-obey the big boy/girl rules that we all do". Please tell me where I can locate that comment by Ralph. Ralph has asked me to return to write my comments. No promises have been made by either side. I will say I do not consider his request to return as a weakness. I am like a Christmas present to Ralph he does not know what he is getting until he opens the package or in this case reads what I have to say. I will continue to write what I feel I need to say but it is Ralph's right to post it or not. LET IT GO. Him and I are not what is important here.

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    7. Dennis, feel free to fire away. Again, if you play by the rules, and they're pretty simple, you can have your say. Dennis is right, there are no deals; I myself am very uncomfortable with censorship. I consider it the worst option.

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  20. Can anyone suggest what recourse VICTIMS have ?

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    1. Yes Arthur, if I may, suggest that the Victims unite.
      The question is how can we all meet up? Especially when SNAP has cockblocked that very possibility by laying like an octopus over the victims non existent movement.
      SNAP is the only place victims call and SNAP's the Church so no organizing takes place.
      To me, and I've been active 11 years now, victims connecting up far far away from SNAP or any other so far extant "survivors" group.
      If victims can connect and organize we can change laws, fight for windows of opportunity as compared, again thanks to SNAP, to embarassing families going to mass and appearing as a threat to the religion. Something the hierarchs needed to have accomplished in order to better protect themselves.
      Victims need to connect up and then decide what to do and how to do it and who to ask for help. And that has never really happened yet. My opinion.

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    2. Art - Yes. Report the claimed abuse right away.

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    3. I left out "should be" between victims and connecting 5th line down.7:40 am post.

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    4. Yes, Joe, and hopefully with all the training and safeguards in place in this day and age, the PARENTS or guardians of a victim will recognize that there might be a problem. Art can refer to any archdiocesan web page for what has been done in the Church. Or simply scroll up to Justone's comment of May 16:@11:42A for a short version.A lot of these safeguards have been in place and are even now improved. I have never seen any extensive training or any other effort put forth by any other group so parents would have to be vigilant when their child is anywhere else. Even with an adolescent, parents have to take some responsibility.

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    5. joise bailey: thank for your suggestion however all the church is cover and enable abusers, there are one hundred priests not including the religious order members who have creditable accusations of abuse so that means that there are at least one hundred plus Victims who have been denied access to the Justice System. The claim of safe guards that you speak of did not apply to 'fugee' from North Jersey who was placed in a position with children in violation of the agreement and the bishop put him there. This is not about religion, catholic bashing etc, it is about those running the church, question : is bill donohue divorced ?

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  21. Those who wish to put Donahue on a pedestal is fine. There are those who think what Hitler did was also acceptable. However, I am here to kick that leg out from underneath him. I am not going to do it with words of my own but those of Donahue himself and printed statements of others. Someone once told me if you have those statements you do not have to be Hemingway.


    "The refrain that child rape is a reality in the Church is twice wrong: let's get it straight -- they weren't children and they weren't raped.

    In what world is a 12 year old adolescent not a child?

    Bill Donohue: Church Abuse Victims were Active Participants

    Mr. Donahue bragged to the New York Times that the Catholic Bishops had got together with a new strategy to fight victims of sex abuse by clergy, and continued his rant about the apparent Catholic war on rape victims and their advocates

    The vocal and obnoxious leader of the Catholic League, William Donahue, who outspokenly condemned child abuse victims and advocates as “A menace to the Catholic Church”,

    Donahue’s Catholic League – Rapist Fr. McGuire-member # 60201 (Contribution)Bill Donahues’ Catholic League Member # 60201 MCGUO, serial molester Fr. Donald McGuire, is the most notorious Jesuit rapist on earth.

    I could go on and on. I could also add his additional thoughts regarding victims, Jews, Gays, the Irish and those of us who are married. I could also add the legal problems that he and his organization has had, but this blog site would never have enough space for me to post.

    Bill Donahue makes it so easy for someone to trash him. To compare him to the fictional character of Archie Bunker (although he does look like him) would be an insult, because if you grew up in the time watching the T.V. show All in the Family you would know although Archie had that ruff exterior he did have feelings and a heart unlike Donahue who has ice water running through his veins.

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  22. So in reading all these positive comments about the catholic church and bill donohues 'flawless logic' , ( I thought commander SPOCK a Vulcan was the only one that possessed that virtue) then why is the catholic church so opposed to eliminating the SOl and opening a Window for VICTIMS of Abuse ?

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  23. http://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/?p=27163
    Well, Well Well.

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  24. You did a good job with the post!! Well done!!

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  25. All of the above comments beg the question,that the hierarchy of the church be throughly vetted. This can and will be done when the SOl is removed and a Window opened for Victims as it will show who knew what and when they knew it, this is not about money to the rcc it is all about secrets,hopefully the church will remain but until the pew warmers and politicians realize that all of the above will remain.

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